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ugh. suggestion...smaller maps


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#21 Grassy

Posted 22 January 2018 - 03:04 PM

I like Shrouds voting idea. Bring in the involvement of the players. If they complain in game. send them to the website for their say. +1 SS 

 

One thought would be to assign "one admin" who is of a proactive nature to respond and moderate a special section designed just for ideas and/or cheating concerns.  


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#22 Hairy Russian Dude

Posted 22 January 2018 - 08:29 PM

I like Shrouds voting idea. Bring in the involvement of the players. If they complain in game. send them to the website for their say. +1 SS 

THIS ^^^^^^^

 

Progress!!!

First of all, this isn't the standard answer of:
"No we tried that a long time ago (ie: when the server was in a different state), won't work."
"No people don't like voting, won't work."
"No won't work."
Secondly, not only has a player's request been acknowledged, but it has been shown to have support by at least one member of the admin team alongside the admin's two cents as to why it would work.

Whether or not this request comes to fruition, we will have to see. But lets see more of this!

 

Thank you Rub! +10 to you sir.


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#23 Spare Parts

Posted 22 January 2018 - 08:38 PM

 

I like Shrouds voting idea. Bring in the involvement of the players. If they complain in game. send them to the website for their say. +1 SS 

THIS ^^^^^^^

 

Progress!!!

First of all, this isn't the standard answer of:
"No we tried that a long time ago (ie: when the server was in a different state), won't work."
"No people don't like voting, won't work."
"No won't work."
Secondly, not only has a player's request been acknowledged, but it has been shown to have support by at least one member of the admin team alongside the admin's two cents as to why it would work.

Whether or not this request comes to fruition, we will have to see. But lets see more of this!

 

Thank you Rub! +10 to you sir.

 

Yep, it all sounds good till you have to put nuts and bolts to ideas.  I support Rub and his volunteering to run a monthly poll.  You're a better man than I.


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#24 Hairy Russian Dude

Posted 22 January 2018 - 08:47 PM

I am amazed that a 15 year old game is getting everyone's blood boiling. It shows how much passion and dedication still exists and I think its awesome. I don't believe anyone here is trying to put one or the other down. This community values its members and values its input, and it shows with a 15+ year old community. 

 

All I am saying is that you got the right people running the server otherwise this community would have gone the wayside years ago. As always, I know the admins and senior admins look at the suggestions and sometimes the suggestions come to fruition if...from a management perspective...it makes sense. Keep in mind, adding and removing maps to the rotation is only once piece of it. The Senior Admins need to look at the entire puzzle before adding another piece to the puzzle...if the piece doesn't fit the implications can be far and wide given the game's population is declining. 

 

Coming to a consensus is hard...just look at the US government ;)

 

I'm glad you can recognize the dedication bond. I don't like new shooters and don't want my game to die, plain and simple. Some here can hurl whatever insults they wish at me, I will be a loudmouth when I feel obvious change could be beneficial.
I have total faith in those running this server to run the server. I absolutely believe they know what they are doing in that regard. However, they have never dealt with a 15 year old 1942 before. Experienced or not, this is new territory for the server. I find it completely unreasonable to immediately shoot down requests for smaller maps/different modes, shorter timers, default weapon damage/inventory, etc. based on past experience when the server was doing better.

These things were tried at a different time and pros and cons were discovered in that particular state of the server.
This a new one and I think it should be back to the drawing board with all options on the table to explore what works in the now.

 

To tie this in to the original post, when was the last time Berlin and Stali CTF were part of the regular rotation? ie: when was the last time this was tried and judgement on popularity was passed?
You don't even need to answer that, just think about the concept I'm trying to drive home here.



#25 Angerfist

Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:12 PM

I think Stalingrad was in rotation 2 weeks ago, Berlin 3 weeks ago. Did that help you driving your way home ?

 

Here's an idea how you could actually help to keep the game alive :

 

Spend more time with playing the game than you spend posting complaints and suggestions in the forums. It's quite irritating to get constantly berated how to run things by somebody who appears on the server 2 times per month for 10 minutes.


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#26 Hairy Russian Dude

Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:36 PM

I disagree on your answer as far as the last time those maps were in regular rotation.

As stated before, I will certainly play more should I log in to maps/modes appropriate for the pop.

 

And you were just as irritated when I played more. ;)



#27 bondmaster

Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:11 AM

Couple things I want to point out here:

 

First: Personally speaking, I have never been "for" or "against" what has been said on either side of this thread. In fact, I am intrigued by Shroud's idea and I would have no problem moderating a monthly poll if that is what the community and the Senior Admins want. Simply putting up a random poll every month won't be productive, in fact it will be counter productive. I have an systematic idea on how to do this, but i want to run it by the Senior Admins first and get approvals before doing anything else. 

 

Second: Keep in mind everyone is here to play a good game and have fun...its difficult to maintain enthusiasm when an admin is spending more time working than playing (also leads to burn out). Having served at both the Regular and Senior Levels, I can attest to that. However, as Spare Parts said it's one thing to express an opinion, but it's a lot harder to put to put it into action. I understand the players perspectives that admins are "not listening", or  "shooting down requests", but I also know how much work is involved with running the servers and the community. We are all volunteers and we do it for the love of the game and the admin team as a whole works hard to keep this community going. 

 

Third: You can change the rotation until your face turns blue, but in reality it will not save the server in the long run. This is is NOT new territory for the community. The night time population has been an issue for the past five years. The daytime population is starting to struggle these days, but this is not limited to our community, ALL BF1942 servers have the problem to some degree. Its an old game and that is just a fact of life. The ONLY way to save the server in the long run is to play and recruit new players, which is tough to do considering the game is so old. Best way to do that is to advertise, bring in games or concepts, and prove that the population is still there. Someday, it will all come to an end, but until then enjoy the game, play often, and show the world why this was one of the greatest FPS games ever made. 

 

Matt


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#28 bondmaster

Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:15 AM

*banging head on desk*

Big map + low pop + long timer + timer extensions = no fun to be had.
Enter forum + express what peaks your interest as a player + get told what interests players wont interest players + bitter sr admins and their well articulated personal insults unrelated to the subject matter = lower participation.

Roll with that as you please.
Rub and bond, equipment is awesome and much more fun that playing as inf, hands down. But when youve got 4 on 4 gazala (example) it becomes "woohoo spitfires! but only 4 targets scattered around a big map".
Also not fun is running equipment maps and then nerfing the means for inf to take out the equipment.

 

Also, I saw this and I kept thinking how short name's can be used in the wrong context.  :lol:


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#29 Angerfist

Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:22 AM

Oh, my fault, it was the CQ versions of those maps and not the ctf versions.

 

That long post you made earlier basically screams to get a detailed answer, it's so full of misjudgement and misinterpretation (based on a solid lack of background knowledge, of details and the dynamiques), it basically is begging to get ripped apart. One year ago you would have gotten a long answer from me, but I really don't wanna waste my time explaining things again to a forum member who honors the server with a ten minute visit once in a while.


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#30 bondmaster

Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:39 AM

Oh, my fault, it was the CQ versions of those maps and not the ctf versions.

 

That long post you made earlier basically screams to get a detailed answer, it's so full of misjudgement and misinterpretation (based on a solid lack of background knowledge, of details and the dynamiques), it basically is begging to get ripped apart. One year ago you would have gotten a long answer from me, but I really don't wanna waste my time explaining things again to a forum member who honors the server with a ten minute visit once in a while.

 

its funny you mention that. If you look back on some of my posts over eight years ago, you will find some novels that i written when responding to things like this. Age has taught me not waste time when it can all be summed up in a straight forward sentence. Now I really feel old. :)


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#31 Angerfist

Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:04 AM

I'm usually in a conflict between "One not very diplomatic oneliner" and "scientifical essay as an answer to a post which I simply should have ignored".


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#32 Grassy

Posted 23 January 2018 - 02:23 AM

 

Oh, my fault, it was the CQ versions of those maps and not the ctf versions.

 

That long post you made earlier basically screams to get a detailed answer, it's so full of misjudgement and misinterpretation (based on a solid lack of background knowledge, of details and the dynamiques), it basically is begging to get ripped apart. One year ago you would have gotten a long answer from me, but I really don't wanna waste my time explaining things again to a forum member who honors the server with a ten minute visit once in a while.

 

its funny you mention that. If you look back on some of my posts over eight years ago, you will find some novels that i written when responding to things like this. Age has taught me not waste time when it can all be summed up in a straight forward sentence. Now I really feel old. :)

 

 

You should be promoted :)



#33 Hairy Russian Dude

Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:43 AM

Alright, I'm throwing in the towel on this one.

If you guys truly feel that changing map/mode rotation, shortening timers/rounds, reverting weapon damage, or meeting the requests of players directly expressing what would engage them more would not be helpful, then I will accept this. Sorry to question your centuries of combined experience.

 

One other thing to add, and I mean this sincerely with all due respect....

This voting idea seems to have a couple of backers who could help make it happen. You are relying on forum participation for this though. Put your defense of your team members aside for a moment and take a look at what a newcomer would see logging in to the forum. I think you should take a look at how much transparency there is with players (ie: tired of writing essays after 15 years? fair enough. sticky a FAQ for Q&A. chime in on mods and small changes once in awhile), and also look at how some of your admin team conduct themselves at the doors of the site.

In game messages promoting a vote may not hurt either for those who don't visit the site frequently.

 

Thats me, again.



#34 Captain John H. Miller

Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:34 PM

F all of YI, the voting idea is being discussed in the admin forum.

 

Alright, I'm throwing in the towel on this one.

If you guys truly feel that changing map/mode rotation, shortening timers/rounds, reverting weapon damage, or meeting the requests of players directly expressing what would engage them more would not be helpful, then I will accept this. Sorry to question your centuries of combined experience.

 

One other thing to add, and I mean this sincerely with all due respect....

This voting idea seems to have a couple of backers who could help make it happen. You are relying on forum participation for this though. Put your defense of your team members aside for a moment and take a look at what a newcomer would see logging in to the forum. I think you should take a look at how much transparency there is with players (ie: tired of writing essays after 15 years? fair enough. sticky a FAQ for Q&A. chime in on mods and small changes once in awhile), and also look at how some of your admin team conduct themselves at the doors of the site.

In game messages promoting a vote may not hurt either for those who don't visit the site frequently.

 

Thats me, again.

 

What is this ''reverting weapon damage'' about exactly?

 

I've seen enough topics about what we modded on some maps. For example; thanks to everyone their hate for the New Iwo and hardly giving it a chance, it has been removed.


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#35 Hairy Russian Dude

Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:15 PM

Miller,

 

The zook nerfing comes to mind immediately (which you did undo, thank you). You guys know what tweaks you have made to weapons/equipment. There have been calls to undo some of them and even go back to defaults. There are obvious exceptions such as nade removal on Berlin CQ which indeed work for the better.

 

Another sincere question, no hostility intended...
You brought up the hate for the modded Iwo. Did you base these changes on player requests, or did the admin team just guess what would pan out?



#36 Captain John H. Miller

Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:30 PM

Another sincere question, no hostility intended...

You brought up the hate for the modded Iwo. Did you base these changes on player requests, or did the admin team just guess what would pan out?

 

No, the map ran crap 9/10 times so we wanted to try something to make it better. New Iwo was based on what the players would do, making the map more enjoyable and playable with lower numbers and as a whole. No more Suribachi rape by ships, tanks and planes. Some aspect of being able to do a naval battle. This all to make it a more even map.



#37 Hairy Russian Dude

Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:44 PM

I can understand your frustration in this case. I don't mod, but Ive gathered it is time consuming. I would be pretty bummed out if something I spent a lot of my spare time on was met with "hate it!" Immediately.
But can you see why I asked where the ideas came from? An educated guess as to what playets would do is still a guess. I think you guys should be prepared for possible backlash if you are taking it upon yourselves to try and predict what players will want rather than just ask them.

Om a side note, I personally liked the bunker flags being spaced out more.

#38 bondmaster

Posted 23 January 2018 - 03:47 PM

Alright, I'm throwing in the towel on this one.

If you guys truly feel that changing map/mode rotation, shortening timers/rounds, reverting weapon damage, or meeting the requests of players directly expressing what would engage them more would not be helpful, then I will accept this. Sorry to question your centuries of combined experience.

 

One other thing to add, and I mean this sincerely with all due respect....

This voting idea seems to have a couple of backers who could help make it happen. You are relying on forum participation for this though. Put your defense of your team members aside for a moment and take a look at what a newcomer would see logging in to the forum. I think you should take a look at how much transparency there is with players (ie: tired of writing essays after 15 years? fair enough. sticky a FAQ for Q&A. chime in on mods and small changes once in awhile), and also look at how some of your admin team conduct themselves at the doors of the site.

In game messages promoting a vote may not hurt either for those who don't visit the site frequently.

 

Thats me, again.

 

I am sorry that you feel we are ganging up on you. This inst about questioning one's judgment over the other and its certainly not about admins vs everyone. Its about trusting the people who work on the server daily and knowing the trends. Mistakes will further erode the population and accelerate the demise of the server. Its more important to get it right, and I truly believe the right people are working to make sure it is done right. I am not sure if you ever admined (or managed) before, but its a thankless job and a lot of work goes into it. Its also a position where they have to do things that the community (or a faction) might not like, but its part of their job. 

 

 

I can understand your frustration in this case. I don't mod, but Ive gathered it is time consuming. I would be pretty bummed out if something I spent a lot of my spare time on was met with "hate it!" Immediately.
But can you see why I asked where the ideas came from? An educated guess as to what playets would do is still a guess. I think you guys should be prepared for possible backlash if you are taking it upon yourselves to try and predict what players will want rather than just ask them.

Om a side note, I personally liked the bunker flags being spaced out more.

 

Here lies one of the biggest dilemmas's of map modding. Most of the time the players don't give their opinions (even if asked) and the admins are forced to make changes based on what they think its best for the community. Also, if 5 to 10 people in the want a change, it doesnt translate to a good change. The admin's role is to decide how that change will affect gameplay and any change that is made must be done to satisfy the majority. 

 

In the case of Iwo Jima, everyone knew there was a problem with that map, yet nobody voiced their ideas on what can be done to improve that map. Changes were made to try and make the map better, they were implemented, and then the voices became loud. Furthermore, most of the time the voices only represent a small faction of the community who were adversely affected by the change, they they are the ones who were loud about it. 

 

Map modding is very difficult and its done based on the information that we have. It's hard to please everyone. People (in general) need to embrace change because that is how we evolve. Personally I liked the changes made on Iwo Jima, and with a little more tweaking I think its a better map suited to today's player base. 


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#39 Hairy Russian Dude

Posted 23 January 2018 - 04:37 PM

No need for an apology bond, I don't feel I'm being ganged up on. You and I disagree on some things here but I would gladly back and forth with you on it. Miller and Rub disagree with me, I'd back and forth with them as well.
I'm referring to some of your team members with an attitude who enjoy hurling out completely unnecessary insults, and often only seem to come out to give a verbal beatdown.

Try walking into that on the forums for the first time. This, in my opinion, will drive people off (could be part of the reason you don't get more ideas voiced as stated in your last post).
While your structure, skills, and physical ability to run the server is shared by all, some of you guys are good with people and some aren't. All I'm saying is take a look at who is greeting at your doorstep.

 

I threw my towel down on arguing about maps. Any change you make though would likely go over better with consultation rather than prediction. "hard to please everyone" is an understatement. You never will. So long as the majority are pleased and it keeps the population healthier.

 

I get the part about the thankless job. Please note I have sympathized with you on the vibe in the forums and tried to breathe some positivity here in the past...
http://www.moongamer...showtopic=65438



#40 Angerfist

Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:07 PM

Alright, I'm throwing in the towel on this one.

If you guys truly feel that changing map/mode rotation, shortening timers/rounds, reverting weapon damage, or meeting the requests of players directly expressing what would engage them more would not be helpful, then I will accept this. Sorry to question your centuries of combined experience.

 

A unconventional way of "throwing the towel" aka "letting go". Usually "throwing the towel" isn't followed by a bitchy sarcastic statement whích twists and bends the truth to the max. Which struggling store owner wouldn't appreciate the berating window shopper who never shops but tries to sell his personal taste as the masterplan.

 

 


"One other thing to add, and I mean this sincerely with all due respect....

This voting idea seems to have a couple of backers who could help make it happen. You are relying on forum participation for this though. Put your defense of your team members aside for a moment and take a look at what a newcomer would see logging in to the forum. I think you should take a look at how much transparency there is with players (ie: tired of writing essays after 15 years? fair enough. sticky a FAQ for Q&A. chime in on mods and small changes once in awhile), and also look at how some of your admin team conduct themselves at the doors of the site.

In game messages promoting a vote may not hurt either for those who don't visit the site frequently."

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I had some time to waste and imagined what a newcomer would see and how he would feel after reading some stuff. I applied the perspective and logic which counts in the Hairy Russian Dude universe, you know, the parallel universe in which the concept of cause & effect doesn't matter because 2 + 2 = 5. Common sense is overrated anyway. SUPA EZ.

 

As a new player, I'd totally adore that one guy who constantly is barking at the Admins as if they are his personal servants. What a shitty Admin team is this, they ain't wating 24 hours in the server to shorten the timer if the unfriendly, grumpy guy demands it ? He donated 20 $ yesterday, why aren't they following his orders ?

 

I'd also never would ask for advice how to get better, it's obvious that nobody can be that good. I know that because I play this game / other games since 19**. You better ban that guy quickly, obvious he has a radaroneshotlooping hack. The Admin shall stfu with his explanations, it's a shame he is protecting obvious hackers.

 

I'd expect the Admins to swallow everything which comes from the customer. The player aka the customer has the natural right to behave as respectless and unfriendly as it can get, it's a shame that the Admins dare to actually not kiss their feet. It's very unfriendly that my scummy behavior got a rough answer. That's so respectless. Stupid Admins better don't expect a minimum of manners and behavior, who they think they are ?

 

I'd donate but they should fulfill my personal wishes before that. Of course I'd mention that in the forums without seeing any moral issue.

 

If I get kicked, I wouldn't be just asking "hey I got kicked, what happened". I'd directly make a complaint post telling the bosses that their employees are totally abusing their admin rights. Screw the three warnings I missed, how should I know that I'm not supposed to kill my own team. Using the big drum from the start is the way to go, you gotta show those punkass Admins who the boss is. They are wrong, not me.

 

The most important : I'd expect that I (the most important person on earth) get the respect which I deserve. My function as a monthly window shopper gives me the qualification of preaching my personal taste.  My personal taste is equal to other people's taste, which turns my taste into the masterplan. It's very respectless not to be thankful, no wonder they have fewer players. If they don't apply my rightful demands instantly, I'll let them know how much they suck but I will use smart ways of letting them know. Because using terms like "with all respect, ..." allows me to be as disrespectful as I can be, at least I didn't use a cuss word. MOM, the Admin used the word "bitchy", that's so rude. I'll also give advice constantly for questions they never asked me. Cuz I know the deal.


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