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#1 Enforcer

Posted 12 October 2014 - 01:22 AM

It was brought to my attention, that it seems that we, as admins, have said, "no" to all mod requests by the Moongamers' players who play on the Dayz maps. That got me to thinking...do we?

The issue revolves around my post with Adazca and the metal flooring at the traders. I thought I made my point clear on that in that I misread the gist of the post. As I understand it, several of the people I thought were satisfied here, went on to play elsewhere over my comments. So, couple of things:

Play where you find happiness. If you don't like it here, I wish you all the luck in the world to go and find a community that will enable you to play these games in a manner you find enjoyable. We are not holding anyone hostage. Many have left Moongamers, and went on to bigger and better things. Many did not agree with everything that goes on here, the speed in which things go on here, or the basic direction of the game they enjoy playing.

So, let me clarify something else. I do not always get what I want, contrary to what a player may ask for. For example, I was against the server being open to the general population. Initially, Dayz was going to be just some fun for existing Moonies who had the password. This was never intended to be an open server for all. I was out voted and we went forward with no password. And turns out, that was the right way to go.

I was against putting the CH-53 into the trader data. Really..we need another helicopter that is as big as a house. I was told the players wanted it. I let it slide on through for the sake of the server and it was what the players wanted.

I was against the elevator script. Before it was broken, I was outvoted on that as well, and we moved forward on it.

I was against the tow/lift package. I feel it makes it too easy to get around, sell stuff, etc. Do I use it? Sure, but, initially I thought it would interfere with the people factor. With a tow/lift script, you don't need a buddy to help you sell stuff, you can do it all by yourself, which I thought defeats the purpose of the game. To have fun with some others.

I was against air bases. Barrett made two, Bucket made one and while I was against them, I didn't wig out over it. I was told that some others want more. I was able to compromise with any future air bases, being built within one square grid of a zero line either North or West so people won't accidentally fly into it. Or it is very much less likely.

So, what do we run on the Chernarus map that was in large part because that is what the players wanted:

Snap build pro
Two mission systems: both the red missions, and the blue/green missions
Roaming AI
Additional vehicles (BTR60)
Guns collected on missions are at the traders to sell/buy
Vehicle ammo is at the trader to buy/sell
Tow/lift script
Elevator script (until there was a conflict with the decay)
Signs at the traders (you know the fancy Moongamers ones)
At your death, you are brought back to the lobby by default
The new buildables that are coming with the gem bartering system
Medevac chopper
Infastar admin abilities (object deletions for example for no charge)
Master Key by admin db manipulation for no charge
A modified bambi pack with a rifle included etc.
Lowered AI skill (players thought they were TOO tough)
Longer time period before AI spawns on you
Lowered Zed number per player

What we looked at and decided we did not want to go with:

Self blood bagging (promotes lone wolfing vs the buddy system)
Spawning anywhere on the map (part of the risk)
Spawning anywhere the player selects (part of the risk)
Additional helicopters (Ka53, and Ka60 I think. Too overpowered for a pve map)
Additional ground vehicles (LAVs and BTR90. Again, too overpowered for this map)
Bandit skins at traders (on a pve server, who wants to wear a bandit skin? And if you do, let us know, and we'll spawn one in for you)
Roaming AI in cars/helicopters (too hard for a pve server, for people just getting started)

So, this post should serve to let people know that we DO listen. We DO take into account what people are wanting out of the game they play. We compare that to the direction we see for Moongamers and make changes that work for the benefit for all. Do we do everything that people want? No. We do, however, do what we can. And I think that reasonable.
  • Skuttlefoot likes this

#2 Warrior124

Posted 12 October 2014 - 01:56 PM

I agree with Steve. There are alot of things I myself would like to see, but the simple fact is this. We cannot add alot of things, or people would have alot of lag. We do take into account what people want, and we strive to utilize what we can. So, if you have suggestions please feel free to post them, or let any admin know, and we will see what we can do.

#3 Skuttlefoot

Posted 13 October 2014 - 07:11 PM

Hey Everyone!

I'd like to throw out a suggestion for a new mod but first I need to give credit where credit is due. In response to Enforcers post; I understand your point of view and appreciate your honesty. Personally I think the MoonGamers' admins have taken great care of the server and their passion about the game and for supporting their community is unquestioned. I appreciate that you stay true to the nature of the game (survival) and spirit of the server (COOP PVE). I do think that the mods you guys have turned down are for the best and I agree that most were completely unnecessary for our COOP PVE server. You guys definitely provide more support to your players than any other server I have been on! Thank You!

I came across two mods while playing on a different server a while back. They gave you the ability to sell from your backpack or from your vehicle. All you had to do was have the items in whatever container you wanted to sell from, approach a certain vendor (med for med, gun vendor for guns etc.) and select the "Sell from Backpack" or "Sell from Vehicle". The transaction was instant and it sold everything in your container that could possibly be sold at the vendor. I know your first thought may be against implementing either of these mods but here is my Pro/Con comparison of the mods. To keep things simple, I'm just going to give a pro/con for the backpack mod because the vehicle one is all its goodness only better haha!

PROS:
1) Makes selling scavenged/looted items a more realistic way of making money (other than selling helicopters)
2) Significantly reduces the time it takes to sell a load of items.
3) Reduces hoarding!! Hand to the sky, I let stuff pile up at the base because I would rather DELETE the item than go take the time selling EACH INDIVIDUAL PIECE for mere silver.
4) Eliminates the "sell emote" when your trading, giving us more time to actually play
5) Encourages players to get out and see the world! Do more missions, loot more stores, run from Zeds, and enjoy the heart of the game!
6) Considering the above PRO, it could also encourage COOP PVE for those who want to run missions to make money
7) Can offset the need for so many helicopters on the map, thus increasing FPS

CONS:
1) Takes away from an element of the game (sell emote)
2) May influence discrepancies over mission loot if multiple players are counting on the loot for cash
3) May cause a bottle neck effect for mission runners, possibly prompting addition of more missions on the map (decreasing FPS?)
4) Gotta quote Enforcer on this one - It would make the game "easier" and players would have to work a little less to get a carrot
5) May clash with other addons?

These are all the pros/cons I could come up with personally. I welcome everyone's opinions in support or even against implementation of either of these mods.

Even if we were to implement the sell-from-backpack mod, that would be a God Send and would encourage me (and most likely others) to stop hoarding and look toward mission running or scavenging as a method of making cash. Selling helicopters has its own pros/cons but after a while, for me, it gets boring as heck. I enjoy the missions and running around searching for loot because you have to do what the games was built for – survival. The server I played on that had these mods didn't even have helicopter spawns… and it didn't bother me one bit!
Thanks for your time!

Here is a link to the site that has this mod/script:

http://epochmod.com/...20-coming-soon/
  • Justus (Rex) likes this

#4 Kord325

Posted 14 October 2014 - 10:28 AM

The sale from backpack is a very nice script, I've personally had the pleasure of testing it out with skuttle in our chase for better frame rates until the decay kicks in an alleviates the strain on fps by removing some of the vacant bases. I agree that it would add more quality to the game without straining the server too terribly bad. I believe it would encourage more people to get out and scavenge and sell to make money instead of just hoarding everything or wasting it. Another nifty mod we came across on out travels was fast trade. It's a few seconds faster and cuts out the sale animation. Just food for thought.

#5 Enforcer

Posted 14 October 2014 - 12:39 PM

Before I offer an opinion, and sway folks, one way or the other..what do the players want?

#6 Casper

Posted 14 October 2014 - 07:07 PM

I like this idea, so long as it stays limited to the items in a players backpack. Also I would like to include that this would encourage me to actually do missions for loot as opposed to just clearing it to get an ikea to pop up. As is I just do missions and mark the loot, the missions aren't that hard so I end up just flying through them leaving little time for other players to do them as well. I think this would fix that because I would actually spend time picking up the loot and then going to sell them during at least part of the duration of the next red mission to pop up.

#7 Justus (Rex)

Posted 14 October 2014 - 07:13 PM

I completely agree to skuttlefoots suggestion, it would be another way for the economy to be a bit better in the Dayz server and choppers wouldn't be the only thing for us to sell for quick money. This will make players more excited to play and do missions together! So that we don't have a lot of junk laying around and having to waste time selling them one by one, plus it is more realistic to sell the backpack with items in it than not. Skuttlefoot has made quite the suggestion for our server I highly recommend this for our next update!


Thanks!
Comandar_Rex (Justus)

#8 Billy Baloney

Posted 14 October 2014 - 10:01 PM

I also have played other servers that have this. It works well.
Also, maybe put some of these scripts in NAPF.
So few people come to the NAPF map it may be a good place to test things out. Just something to think about.

#9 CrDraggin

Posted 15 October 2014 - 01:59 AM

I would personally vote no. Here is the reasoning...

Easier to sell stuff = Richer Economy
More time to look for other stuff to sell = Richer Economy
The number of choppers on the map = Rich Economy

What do people do with their money? They build more things, more bases, and make more objects for the server to host.

If you hoard guns, this does not slow the server down. It is merely a database entry that does not require you server a object to be rendered. On the other hand, if you are building more and more stuff, this contributes to client side FPS decrease.

That would be my thought. I have found that if I organize my stuff at my base, it is much easier and quicker to sell. If I want to sell ammo, I stack the same kind in active and knock it out.

That is my 2 cents. I like the idea though. If implemented, I would not go for the entire car though. That is beyond too easy to sell 200-300 objects with a scroll mouse...

#10 Lin

Posted 15 October 2014 - 07:18 AM

I see pros and cons but no time to post now. I like the idea, will post as soon as I can.

#11 Randigar

Posted 15 October 2014 - 11:03 AM

Now can we get one that will cook a truckload of fish at once LOL

#12 Mrgiggls

Posted 16 October 2014 - 05:08 PM

I've seen this mod in action and I liked it..a lot.

Not wanting to add it to keep people poorer sounds ..... I don't know what it sounds like, but it's not good imo.

This is a PVE server. Base building is THE activity here. As it stands now we can heli hunt or sit around waiting to get a 3rd or a 4th of the cinder from an Ikea box so we can build our bases.

I know I'm not going to win any points for this, but here goes: It's a little hard to stomach hearing that the server admins don't want players building too much when you see some of the gargantuan monstrosities they've built

I know that some build a base and then start another as soon as it's complete. That's not my style, but I can see why others do it. Like I said...base building is the thing to do on a PVE server. Honestly I don't know why anyone would hoard guns. I guess you could think of a bunch of safes full of guns you'll never use as a "reserve cash pool", but I'd rather have a reserve cash pool of cash, not things that I have to work like a Hebrew slave to convert to cash.

Rather than keep the player base poorer, maybe implement some restrictions on the number of bases a player can have. What about maintenance. I never heard why it wasn't included (I know it was on for a bit), but it does provide incentive for people to just have one main base and maybe an auxiliary base with a car and some emergency supplies (though with evac heli that's pretty unnecessary).
  • Skuttlefoot likes this

#13 Skuttlefoot

Posted 16 October 2014 - 07:10 PM

Giggles, I have to thank you for your honesty.

I think you said what a lot are afraid to say, myself included. The truth is I couldn't agree more with your points. Looking around at the server, the largest bases are usually admins. Not counting public bases, by the way. I'm not criticizing, yet simply stating an observation and I feel adding or throwing this mod out will not stop base building. People will still get the cash to continue to build if they really want to build...

Honestly, my passion around the implementation of this particular mod is to promote players to go out and experience the heart of the game (Survival) and to cooperate with other players during various aspects of the game. If anyone hasn't driven (or walked) around the map in a while, you're missing an extremely beautiful aspect of the game!

Regarding Craig’s comment, I agree with MrGiggls. If you have a rich economy, take advantage of Supply and Demand.

I like your idea around implementing some restrictions on the number of bases a player can have. Not sure how that would actually work but the one thing that pops in my mind that is similar to your idea is regulating the maintenance cost of a base. If the goal is to reduce the number of objects within the game so FPS doesn't get worse, then make it economically unfeasible to maintain a large base. Kord and built a base together and we may have used 400 objects total. The base supported both of our needs with plenty of spare space.

Anyway.

Great post, Sir!

#14 Enforcer

Posted 17 October 2014 - 08:46 AM

I think there is a misconception here about what is and what is not acceptable to say. If you disagree with an admin, even me, feel free to express it. I mean, I would suggest it in a respectful tone such as Mr. Giggls presented when saying what you're saying, but, if it needs to be said..say it. I swear, I won't get my feelings hurt. I may disagree for reasons that you may not be aware of, but, I won't take it personally.

At issue is the health of the server. See..if you all are thinking it, but, not saying for fear of the admins...what kind of place is that to play then? Sure, admins, like all players have good days and bad days and if you happen to pick a bad day to say some negative things that you have seen, well, there may be blowback as a result. But, in a neutral setting such as this, you should be allowed and I think encouraged to say what you are thinking about this or that. If you don't..then you don't have an outlet, and eventually, it gets to a point, where you are so frustrated with this or that, you just leave because of it. Well, I don't want that and I don't think anyone else does either. Admins, are by and large, players as well. They just wanted a hand in how their game is managed and became admins because of it.

Building is a part of epoch. I am hopeful that with the decay script running, those bases that are not maintained will drop off the map. For those, including the admins, who choose to have huge bases, well, the that is the price of building those things. I don't really subscribe to that way of building in this game. I have a main base, (Drakon), a small fishing platform, and a small cabin. Really for all intensive purposes now, I could let the cabin go as with the buildables, I have a water source in my main base now. All told, I have five plot poles to maintain, 3 in main, 1 at fishing and 1 at cabin. Total cost = 80 oz. So, just to put it out there that not ALL admins have huge bases. The NWAF base that was built for me, I have surrendered to a newer player looking for someplace to call home. And I just did not go to that end of the map all that much. I wish I did because it is an awesome base. How bout if you are a builder and that is your game..fine. Build away..when you are done, take a screen shot, invite an admin over for a demo party and delete the base. Now build a new one on the existing ground. That way we don't have a clutter of bases that are built just for the sake of building as that is the thing to do in Epoch, and no one really uses them at all.

Consider this as well..if we are going to limit the number of bases to say..two, how about also limited the number of owned vehicles. I mean, really..how many different vehicles does one player need to own. That number would be around ten or so. In my case, I have one fishing vessel, four helicopters (including the medevac) and five ground vehicles (2 armored SUVs, BTR, Repair Ural, Cargo Ural). I could probably let the cargo go as it is just sitting there as a storage unit. But, my point is..what else do I need? I have what I need. If I wanted an MV-22 for whatever reason, alright well, I would have to sacrifice something..in this case, either my Pook or the Cargo to maintain the ten vehicle limit. I know the argument will be made, there are things that people do that utilize more than ten vehicles..okay..well, I hear ya, but, for the sake of fps, can that be limited somewhat?

So, after reading my long assed thread, here is what I would go for. I would go for the backpack selling vs the vehicle selling. I like the idea that I could put six guns in an empty backpack and sell them all in one shot. Selling 50 guns in one shot..well, that seems just a bit much. Maybe it would promote more players picking up useless crap if they could sell all the items, sixty of them, at once at one trader. Go back to your vehicle, load up with the supplies from the next trader and sell those items. I think this would be a good compromise between those that want the both of the options and those that want neither. So, my vote would be for the backpack selling.

And all of this is contingent that the script does not clash with anything else that we like more..

#15 Lin

Posted 17 October 2014 - 11:26 AM

I do like the backpack idea but not so much the vehicle idea. That would open up new ways to sell and make money, i.e., fish. Corpse used to promote the idea of farming, there is a sunflower field just off NEAF. We might, if it's possible, be able to "build" a pumpkin field as well. It would rid the map of the "little stuff" that folks never pick up...because they wouldn't have to waste time selling. All in all, I think this is a win/win.

I too have two bases, and I really don't want any more.
Cherno: fishing base. This was my first base and I use it to replenish the fish that is my primary food. I have a tower there for shooting AI, but I could live without that, especially as the AI rarely come all the way to my dock base.
Cherno vics: 9 fishing boat (the other belongs to another player), tanker (no longer needed), armored SUV, BTR, camo SUV. Rescue heli, pook to get back to my body after reparking my evac, Blackhawk and Little bird. I also have a "med" Ural that I'll empty and release to the wild. Any other vehicle there is not mine and belongs to others. I don't mind releasing the camo SUV either.
Stary: my "primary" base simply because it's busier there, and centralized. My base is the bottom cinder area built by me, the rest is community area built by Barrett. I do use two of the heli bays above my base, the third is used as a temp heli parking. The barn is also for temp parking when visiting Stary, and is most handy to shoot some of the closer missions.
Stary vics: 6. Armored SUV, tanker, MTVR for storage/ore trips and BTR. Venom, Blackhawk, I use both.

I think it is safe to say that it's not because we're admins that the buildings are large, it's because we started with the server (a couple of times) and have been around for longer than most. Some of the admins have extra time on their hands, and it was used to build.

I am certainly willing to cut down on some of my bases, and some of my vics, in order to help decrease the server lag.

But, to keep this thread on track, I vote Yes to the backpack selling mod.
  • Skuttlefoot likes this

#16 Skuttlefoot

Posted 17 October 2014 - 10:20 PM

I think there is a misconception here about what is and what is not acceptable to say. If you disagree with an admin, even me, feel free to express it. I mean, I would suggest it in a respectful tone such as Mr. Giggls presented when saying what you're saying, but, if it needs to be said..say it. I swear, I won't get my feelings hurt. I may disagree for reasons that you may not be aware of, but, I won't take it personally.

At issue is the health of the server. See..if you all are thinking it, but, not saying for fear of the admins...what kind of place is that to play then? Sure, admins, like all players have good days and bad days and if you happen to pick a bad day to say some negative things that you have seen, well, there may be blowback as a result. But, in a neutral setting such as this, you should be allowed and I think encouraged to say what you are thinking about this or that. If you don't..then you don't have an outlet, and eventually, it gets to a point, where you are so frustrated with this or that, you just leave because of it. Well, I don't want that and I don't think anyone else does either. Admins, are by and large, players as well. They just wanted a hand in how their game is managed and became admins because of it.

Building is a part of epoch. I am hopeful that with the decay script running, those bases that are not maintained will drop off the map. For those, including the admins, who choose to have huge bases, well, the that is the price of building those things. I don't really subscribe to that way of building in this game. I have a main base, (Drakon), a small fishing platform, and a small cabin. Really for all intensive purposes now, I could let the cabin go as with the buildables, I have a water source in my main base now. All told, I have five plot poles to maintain, 3 in main, 1 at fishing and 1 at cabin. Total cost = 80 oz. So, just to put it out there that not ALL admins have huge bases. The NWAF base that was built for me, I have surrendered to a newer player looking for someplace to call home. And I just did not go to that end of the map all that much. I wish I did because it is an awesome base. How bout if you are a builder and that is your game..fine. Build away..when you are done, take a screen shot, invite an admin over for a demo party and delete the base. Now build a new one on the existing ground. That way we don't have a clutter of bases that are built just for the sake of building as that is the thing to do in Epoch, and no one really uses them at all.

Consider this as well..if we are going to limit the number of bases to say..two, how about also limited the number of owned vehicles. I mean, really..how many different vehicles does one player need to own. That number would be around ten or so. In my case, I have one fishing vessel, four helicopters (including the medevac) and five ground vehicles (2 armored SUVs, BTR, Repair Ural, Cargo Ural). I could probably let the cargo go as it is just sitting there as a storage unit. But, my point is..what else do I need? I have what I need. If I wanted an MV-22 for whatever reason, alright well, I would have to sacrifice something..in this case, either my Pook or the Cargo to maintain the ten vehicle limit. I know the argument will be made, there are things that people do that utilize more than ten vehicles..okay..well, I hear ya, but, for the sake of fps, can that be limited somewhat?

So, after reading my long assed thread, here is what I would go for. I would go for the backpack selling vs the vehicle selling. I like the idea that I could put six guns in an empty backpack and sell them all in one shot. Selling 50 guns in one shot..well, that seems just a bit much. Maybe it would promote more players picking up useless crap if they could sell all the items, sixty of them, at once at one trader. Go back to your vehicle, load up with the supplies from the next trader and sell those items. I think this would be a good compromise between those that want the both of the options and those that want neither. So, my vote would be for the backpack selling.

And all of this is contingent that the script does not clash with anything else that we like more..


Great idea about limiting vehicles, Enforcer! I personally cannot see myself needing 10, let alone more than 10 vehicles! I'm glad you guys are giving the mod a shot on the test server. I've upgraded my whole computer so I'm expecting significant FPS improvement from this alone. Hopefully the mod will not clash with other mods. I'm already getting exited about selling all the extra stuff I have sitting in the tents at my base hah!

~Skuttlefoot

#17 Kord325

Posted 27 October 2014 - 08:46 AM

I am definitely pro limiting vehicles, I have two helicopters and three vehicles, thinking of buying a fourth, for me personally that is enough, for someone else, maybe not. But a vehicle cap would be beneficial to the server most definitely. As for bases I am currently in the process of constructing one and my old will be demolished as soon as I move. I believe a two base limit will also help the server from becoming cluttered. And if you wanted to restrict that even further you could put a maintainable item limit on the secondary base for example, say 300 items. It would be really hard to enforce, but the majority of us on this server are pretty honest, the regulars at least, I can't vouch for the newbie players. All in all they all sound like good ideas to me.

Now I would like to introduce implementing a new function. The activation of group creation. There is already a channel for it, but we lack the functionality to actually create groups. With this function active, you can form groups with the people you regularly play with and instead of using side chat you can use group chat and not disturb anyone. Another advantage is you can see where the members of your group is at all times, no longer will you have to mark yourself on the map, your buddies can just come and pick you up. It is also advantageous for running missions. Someone wants to run the Red mission with you, invite them to the group and you instantly know their location so there is no excuse for accidents other than someone blatantly disregarding the ruleset for running missions like calling the mission or not marking their spot on the map if they refuse to group up.

All in all I think this would improve the quality of co-op gameplay significantly on our server.

2 cents added

Kord

#18 CrDraggin

Posted 27 October 2014 - 04:28 PM

I am definitely pro limiting vehicles, I have two helicopters and three vehicles, thinking of buying a fourth, for me personally that is enough, for someone else, maybe not. But a vehicle cap would be beneficial to the server most definitely. As for bases I am currently in the process of constructing one and my old will be demolished as soon as I move. I believe a two base limit will also help the server from becoming cluttered. And if you wanted to restrict that even further you could put a maintainable item limit on the secondary base for example, say 300 items. It would be really hard to enforce, but the majority of us on this server are pretty honest, the regulars at least, I can't vouch for the newbie players. All in all they all sound like good ideas to me.

Now I would like to introduce implementing a new function. The activation of group creation. There is already a channel for it, but we lack the functionality to actually create groups. With this function active, you can form groups with the people you regularly play with and instead of using side chat you can use group chat and not disturb anyone. Another advantage is you can see where the members of your group is at all times, no longer will you have to mark yourself on the map, your buddies can just come and pick you up. It is also advantageous for running missions. Someone wants to run the Red mission with you, invite them to the group and you instantly know their location so there is no excuse for accidents other than someone blatantly disregarding the ruleset for running missions like calling the mission or not marking their spot on the map if they refuse to group up.

All in all I think this would improve the quality of co-op gameplay significantly on our server.

2 cents added

Kord



I like the idea. I remember seeing a mod for this, but feedback was iffy at that time. I will look again into it and see what I can come up with.

#19 Enforcer

Posted 27 October 2014 - 04:40 PM

I would second the group concept. That way, a team leader could "Group" the team going to do the mission. They then could use group chat and not clutter up the side chat so much, sending messages to the entire server when they are not involved in the mission.

If you can find the script Draggin, I would vote yes to that server side setting.

A quick google and I found this from 2012:

Groups are defined in the mission file. In case of DayZ mission, every survivor is in a different group and there is no way for players to change the group layout during the mission. In DayZ you can only talk to others in group channel when you and the others are in the lobby right after joining the server.

In ArmA 2 technically it is possible to create groups on-the-fly and make players join them, but this functionality is not implemented in DayZ.


#20 Skuttlefoot

Posted 28 October 2014 - 07:56 AM

I support activating the group function for the server. Kord hit the nail on the head, this feature truely maximizes cooperative play! It was awesome being able to see where each member of the group was located during missions!

I also support the base restriction ideas Kord has. I can see where it could be difficult to manage but if push came to shove I wouldn't have any issue adhering to the limits. Maybe it would be easier to start with increasing cost to maintain a base with more than 300-400 objects to discourage big base building.

Great post guys!


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