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Map Changes and Modding


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#1 dodgem

Posted 17 April 2020 - 12:58 PM

Hi everyone,

 

Hope you're safe and well given this pandemic we're all facing.

 

We've recently made a number of changes to some of our maps, some obvious others less so, and will continue to do so over the coming months.

 

For context, we've pretty much always had a map modder in our admin ranks since MoonGamers was started in 2004.  However, we've sadly been without anyone to help keep things fresh for the past year and a half.  Fortunately, one of our admins has been putting in the time and effort to learn how to mod maps and has already made some significant "quick fix" changes to Market Garden, Bocage and Battleaxe.

 

Please give these changes some time to bed in as they will certainly change the dynamics of the game which may take time to get used to.  Give them two weeks, after which we welcome grievances and even your suggested improvements below.

 

We have also tested and will be implementing a couple of new admin commands.  Any trouble makers may now find that they spontaneously die when ignoring admin directives, rather than necessarily being kicked.  For the avoidance of doubt, we will still be warning players so that they know if they've done something wrong.  

 

Thank you all for playing at MoonGamers!


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#2 Dr. Detroit

Posted 17 April 2020 - 01:00 PM

The recent mods are a pleasant surprise !   Thanks


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#3 kaiserj

Posted 17 April 2020 - 05:30 PM

More ammo for snipers in every map!


Team killing allowed if it's playa being killed.


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#4 Lin

Posted 18 April 2020 - 01:16 AM

Tonight's additions:

Battleaxe CQ:

  • Moved rightmost Axis AA (behind the main) closer to the base's entrance
  • Moved tank spawns to be more spread out. Adjusted some of the soldier spawn points

Market Garden CQ:

  • Added two jeeps to the Axis main base (one near the AA nearest the steel bridge, one close to the plane spawns)
  • Rotated AAs in Allied base towards Axis (pointing south)  

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#5 Stamper

Posted 18 April 2020 - 01:07 PM

I'm a mixed opinion on the added bots, but thank you to the admins in several games since the mods were set up who have asked players if they wanted them off.  Cool dynamic and cool way to handle it, especially if the bots remain 4 to a team.  Thanks for being cool about it.

 

The sniper ammo is back at default which is cool, but I ain't gonna lie, the 4 spare mags were nice ;).  

 

 

I'm rambling thoughts, but what if (Market and Bocage) the Axis had a Ju88 (but give the allies Mustangs in compensation..Bocage already has the Mustangs)?  Added MG42/Browning placements in the 3 story building along the road in Arnhem across from the Church, and even in more houses, Priest/Wespe each team, another AA gun be added near the house and fence (south east fence corner) at the church in Market?  It'd add 4 to the Allies whereas the Axis (though their base is bigger) have 6.  Not sure if you can add ladders, but a couple rooftop machine gun emplacements in Market would be cool (like in Caen).  There's already one in the window at the center flag. 

 

PT Boats in Market...pointless but fun! 

 

Wasabi (I think) mentioned earlier that the expansion equipment can't be added in, but if there 'is' a way to do it in the future, what about adding the jeeps from Raid with the machine guns into Market and Bocage?

 

I like the stuff happening now - I'm excited to see what comes next.


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#6 kaiserj

Posted 18 April 2020 - 04:51 PM

 

The sniper ammo is back at default which is cool, but I ain't gonna lie, the 4 spare mags were nice ;).  

 

 

 

 

Snipers need more ammo.


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#7 Wasabi®

Posted 18 April 2020 - 11:30 PM

New as of right now: 

 

Kharkov CQ:

  • Added bots (4/side)
  • Added anti-tank kits at bridge flags (behind cover)
  • Added jeeps to East Bank / West Bank bridge flags and the Kharkov Hills flag
  • Moved jeeps in main bases so they can't be taken out by a single bomb / tank shot

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#8 Wasabi®

Posted 20 April 2020 - 01:30 PM

Soon:

 

Market Garden / Bocage / Battleaxe / Kharkov:

  • The airstrip will no longer reload bombs for the BF109/Mustang/Spitfire/Yak9. 
  • Spawn times for BF109/Mustang/Spitfire/Yak9 adjusted slightly upwards.
  • Spawn times for AA adjusted slightly downwards.

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#9 Lin

Posted 20 April 2020 - 05:25 PM

Overall, we're trying to make the things in game that create the most problems to be less problematic. For years, we operated with nerfed weapons, most notably nades, expacks, zooks. Tanks were a big problem, planes have always been a big problem. How big? I quit playing this game years ago because of pilots, and I'm not the only one.

 

To address this and bring our server current with the player base requests, we're making changes. The nades, expacks and zooks have been restored to full (normal) power to help deal with the tanks. There are more jeeps on the maps for transportation (and for driving into tank butts). Planes will have to deal with increased AA guns, and without reloads they will need a new plane more often, which will give the other players on the map a break from the planes. This was preferred over nerfing plane power. 

 

Rather than having the server continue to be dominated by the few good players, our focus is to make it more fun for the majority of the players. Those few players inevitably would chase off the other players, and we do not want to see this happen any longer. We know we permanently lost many players to one or two particular pilots, and our goal is for that to no longer happen. Please bear with us as we try to make MoonGamers more playable for all!


Edited by Lin, 21 April 2020 - 07:57 AM.
I was corrected by Miller on the nades and expacks in para 2.

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#10 kaiserj

Posted 20 April 2020 - 05:29 PM

Can we try and El Alamein that is conquest and not CTF?


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#11 kaiserj

Posted 20 April 2020 - 05:36 PM

Overall, we're trying to make the things in game that create the most problems to be less problematic. For years, we operated with nerfed weapons, most notably nades, expacks, zooks. Tanks were a big problem, planes have always been a big problem. How big? I quit playing this game years ago because of pilots, and I'm not the only one.

 

To address this and bring our server current with the player base requests, we're making changes. The nades, expacks and zooks have been restored to full (normal) power to help deal with the tanks. There are more jeeps on the maps for transportation (and for driving into tank butts). Planes will have to deal with increased AA guns, and without reloads they will need a new plane more often, which will give the other players on the map a break from the planes. This was preferred over nerfing plane power. 

 

Rather than having the server continue to be dominated by the few good players, our focus is to make it more fun for the majority of the players. Those few players inevitably would chase off the other players, and we do not want to see this happen any longer. We know we permanently lost many players to one or two particular pilots, and our goal is for that to no longer happen. Please bear with us as we try to make MoonGamers more playable for all!

 

There's been several times I've quit because of planes. Not because of one particular pilot, just that you couldn't do anything without being killed right away. By the time you've respawned they've circled around and are already shooting at you. 

 

Maybe from time to time no attacking non-cap bases. I've raged quit several times because I can't even move after spawning and I'm dead already.


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#12 Lin

Posted 20 April 2020 - 05:52 PM

We're actually working on improving this. Planes will have to deal with more AA, the planes won't be able to reload (which means a new plane) and we have increased the minimum spawn time for new planes by about 10-20 seconds. That doesn't seem long, but it's enough to slow down the plane camping a little bit, which is our goal. We're hoping this will provide some relief to the players from the better pilots. 

 

We will be working on pretty much most (or all) of the maps, but it will take some time. We've heard the request for El Al CQ and that map is on the list, although I am not certain how far down. We are currently trying to build a modest group of maps that will hold pop on rotation, and then keep going from there. 

 

Admins are already able to call for no base camping when they feel it is appropriate, but that really depends on how things are going. If the teams are evenly matched in kills and/or score, they won't often interfere. If there is a campfest/beatdown going on, they are supposed to call for the NBC (no base camp). 


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#13 Wasabi®

Posted 20 April 2020 - 08:06 PM

There's been several times I've quit because of planes. Not because of one particular pilot, just that you couldn't do anything without being killed right away. By the time you've respawned they've circled around and are already shooting at you. 

 

 

 

 

Maybe from time to time no attacking non-cap bases. I've raged quit several times because I can't even move after spawning and I'm dead already.

 

 

We finally have the resources needed to address the plane issue. As Lin mentioned, some changes will be coming (in fact, these changes might even be going live tonight). Planes will no longer be able to reload bombs, and their spawn times will be increased.


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#14 Wasabi®

Posted 20 April 2020 - 11:56 PM

Today's Additions:

 

Market Garden / Bocage / Battleaxe / Kharkov:

  • The airstrip will no longer reload bombs for the BF109/Mustang/Spitfire/Yak9.
  • Spawn times for BF109/Mustang/Spitfire/Yak9 adjusted slightly upwards.
  • Spawn times for AA adjusted slightly downwards.

Liberation of Caen:

  • Removed all planes / AA
  • The axis main is no longer an uncap. The Allies objective is to cap the Axis out.

Berlin / Stalingrad:

  • Removed fall damage for soldiers. You will no longer take damage by falling out of high windows etc

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#15 MonkeySpank

Posted 21 April 2020 - 05:31 PM

I realize I’m a guest on the server and I appreciate you all putting up with me. With that being said, I’m curious if the goal of removing the airstrip reload is to reduce the amount of main base camping?
 
In my opinion, you’re only going to increase camping with it. The people that camp in planes here rarely are up long enough to drop their 15 fighter bombs or shoot 900 rounds. They just die, respawn and take another plane. The increased spawn time isn’t going to negatively impact them. You stop plane campers from even trying to fly with a death bubble or another pilot who is better than them.
 
Removing the airstrip reload is going to make the air support / non-camping pilots have to go to ground every time they have to reload. That will make the camping pilots happy.

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#16 Stamper

Posted 21 April 2020 - 09:12 PM

Coming from someone who (in Market) generally out of boredom of looking for dogfights ends up pounding the Allied base with a 109, I actually like the mod that you can't reload the plane's bombs.  It forces me to do something else, and I do play ground every once in awhile as a result - and I've taken breaks from flying before.  I'm happy to switch gameplay - I just like to fly on some maps, snipe on others or play ground on others.

 

Some thoughts: 

 

Here's what I've learned in my 14 or so years of this game.  Being spawn killed by a plane is awful (yet I do it...), and I hate when it happens to me, and I'm crappy for doing it but also (try to) know when to quit..kaiser, if I'm the reason you quit sometimes, I apologize (truth, not sarcasm).  I hope I'm not a bad influence of a pilot turning players away, but will accept blame if I am.  I do enjoy a good dogfight - they'd probably be more frequent if I'd let the spitfires off the ground, so I'm sorry about this.  Keep in mind I took two months off and only started playing again this week, so what happened in my two month break (and before...) must have been really convincing for admin to do these mods in the first place - but so far the change is pretty cool!

 

Also what I've learned in my 14 or so years of playing this game... Being spawn killed by TANKS (plural) is worse than with a plane.  You don't even have to hit the plane with aa to knock it down or scare it away...or, as what happens to me, panic and hit a tree.   I left Bocage one or two days ago because there were two tigers and a panzer in our base smashing everything in sight, and with only one or two humans on each team, I saw people try to enter the server (to fill it - our goal right?), see the disaster at the allied main, and just leave.  Not even a team of 10 plus bots, all with zooks could adequately handle the tanks, especially if they scatter, repair, come back and reload as they continue their carnage.  

 

I'm as guilty as the next pilot for doing stuff like that in Market, but there is some well placed opposition to prevent planes baseattacking relentlessly if players choose to use it, even before the mods - the aa guns.  Is there something that can be done for the tanks?  Keep in mind, there was no admin on to call for a no camp rule in Bocage the other day, so if an admin was all it took to stop it,  ignore my question I guess.  Are opposing team tanks currently able to reload in another teams base?  

 

I would love to NOT see the installation of deathbubbles...

 

If there is any way of playing I can change to make things smoother and more attractive for this server, I'm happy to do it.  Ax is a joke - even with deathbubbles.  TGE doesn't know when to turn bots off and has rules that make no sense, and Simple's admins can't be killed without banning players or making false accusations about players.  MG is it for me, at least where I 'like' to play, and its because of the people.  Would love to see it to last.   


 

I realize I’m a guest on the server and I appreciate you all putting up with me. With that being said, I’m curious if the goal of removing the airstrip reload is to reduce the amount of main base camping?
 
In my opinion, you’re only going to increase camping with it. The people that camp in planes here rarely are up long enough to drop their 15 fighter bombs or shoot 900 rounds. They just die, respawn and take another plane. The increased spawn time isn’t going to negatively impact them. You stop plane campers from even trying to fly with a death bubble or another pilot who is better than them.
 
Removing the airstrip reload is going to make the air support / non-camping pilots have to go to ground every time they have to reload. That will make the camping pilots happy.

 

I enjoy our dogfights!!!!


 

Overall, we're trying to make the things in game that create the most problems to be less problematic. For years, we operated with nerfed weapons, most notably nades, expacks, zooks. Tanks were a big problem, planes have always been a big problem. How big? I quit playing this game years ago because of pilots, and I'm not the only one.

 

To address this and bring our server current with the player base requests, we're making changes. The nades, expacks and zooks have been restored to full (normal) power to help deal with the tanks. There are more jeeps on the maps for transportation (and for driving into tank butts). Planes will have to deal with increased AA guns, and without reloads they will need a new plane more often, which will give the other players on the map a break from the planes. This was preferred over nerfing plane power. 

 

Rather than having the server continue to be dominated by the few good players, our focus is to make it more fun for the majority of the players. Those few players inevitably would chase off the other players, and we do not want to see this happen any longer. We know we permanently lost many players to one or two particular pilots, and our goal is for that to no longer happen. Please bear with us as we try to make MoonGamers more playable for all!

 

There's been several times I've quit because of planes. Not because of one particular pilot, just that you couldn't do anything without being killed right away. By the time you've respawned they've circled around and are already shooting at you. 

 

Maybe from time to time no attacking non-cap bases. I've raged quit several times because I can't even move after spawning and I'm dead already.

 

Hey Kaiser - I addressed this in my post, but if I'm the pilot that bombs you constantly, that I apologize for.  Hope you stay on the server!


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#17 Wasabi®

Posted 22 April 2020 - 12:38 AM

Today's Additions:

 

Liberation of Caen:

  • Fix slow ticket bleed when Allies cap out the map 
  • Add 4 bots per side
  • Remove small boat under the water mill far west of the South River flag (this is in the interest of making it more difficult for Allies to sneak to the back of the map, since the Axis main is no longer an uncap)
  • Remove the one Pak40 facing the Axis main

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#18 Wasabi®

Posted 23 April 2020 - 12:39 AM

Today's Additions:

Stalingrad CQ:
  • Revert main bases in the map to their vanilla versions. Restore the railroad flag. (Soviet main uncap at bottom of the hill, no flag at western train station, Axis main uncap at the eastern train station)
  • 2 Bots per side
  • 2 extra jeeps per main base
Wake CQ:
  • Unlock Axis carrier - it can now be driven around the map. Please do not drive the carrier out of bounds!
The rotation has been temporarily shortened to test out the newly refreshed maps. Wake CQ (with the unlocked carrier) has been added replacing Wake CTF. The new rotation is as follows and we will be adding to this / shifting things around as more maps get refreshed / modded and of course based on player input.

Omaha Beach and Berlin CTF will be reviewed next. In particular, Omaha Beach is a sensitive map as the Axis have a massive advantage in the map and needs to be carefully balanced.

Market Garden (CQ)
Bocage (CQ)
Battleaxe (CQ)
Kharkov (CQ)
Omaha Beach (CQ)
Berlin (CTF)
Stalingrad (CQ)
Wake (CQ)
Liberation of Caen (CQ)
El Alamein (CTF)
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#19 Wasabi®

Posted 23 April 2020 - 08:33 AM

We want to give players a varied experience, that is, some plane maps, some tank maps, some infantry-maps, a couple of CTF sprinkled in and et cetera. You may notice that Wake is the only Pacific map currently in the rotation. We have some ideas about fixing Midway but there are many other maps (Coral Sea, Guadalcanal, Philippines, Iwo Jima, Midway). Let us know your thoughts. 


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#20 Stamper

Posted 23 April 2020 - 11:58 AM

We want to give players a varied experience, that is, some plane maps, some tank maps, some infantry-maps, a couple of CTF sprinkled in and et cetera. You may notice that Wake is the only Pacific map currently in the rotation. We have some ideas about fixing Midway but there are many other maps (Coral Sea, Guadalcanal, Philippines, Iwo Jima, Midway). Let us know your thoughts. 

 

You can probably predict that I'm gonna say Philippines ;) but...if the server keeps populating as it has been lately with new players, we may have enough to do it semi-regularly.  

 

Philippines:

-Add Allied equivalent to ships and let the carrier move (Pretty sure it's currently stationary)?

-maybe make a Japanese and American uncap (strange suggestion)

-add more machine gun emplacements to the little huts on the shorelines

 

Midway:

-add third destroyer to each team (Carrier, Battleship, 3 destroyers and sub)

-allies get B17 if they have airfield, but only one.  Axis gets two Val bombers, not torpedos

-more tanks at small island flag spawn

 

Guadalcanal:

-two destroyers currently? Add battleship for each team, no sub

-add two M10s for allies, but Axis get additional Wespes and Chi-has

-more jeeps near airfields

-counter the added battleships with plenty of defguns that can only shoot out at the sea, not land (to prevent spamming like in Iwo Jima)

 

Coral Sea:

-got nothing

 

Iwo Jima:

-Allies keep carrier and battleship, gain two destroyers.  Axis gets three destroyers

-add more MG42 placements...the more the better

-spawn a B17 at airfield if allies hold it, but that's the only plane that spawns there.

-Allies get an M10 at airfield 

-beach flag spawns four Shermans instead of two

-Sherman/Chi-ha at all flags that don't normally spawn tanks by default 

-put a defgun overlooking the airfield, facing the direction the planes take off




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