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No wonder average players has dropped to 8 avg. per 24 hrs.


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#21 Twilight

Posted 04 October 2017 - 02:05 AM

There is always next time. As waiting for a situation to arise for potential ammo has a very decent chance to backfire. That's what I was referring toward, and listed examples immediately after on it's impact toward pop. It hasn't been building but on rare occasions for awhile now, were it contrary to this we'd already be using CTF to seed a lot more. We've more often had to do the reverse of what you suggested and build with CQ, then try either ctf or TDM depending what people want. I'm glad you understand the matter of xpacks being vulnerable as well.

Negative, I don't feel that way. I've pointed out the statements were insulting (specifically, they were to both efforts and Moon) and was curious enough I asked if you knew or intended them that way. Along with mentioning how they could adversely impact other subjects you write about. They were neither very respectful. We do try new things to keep the population up, and we will always continue to. At this point however I should stress very few things are that "new" to us - something like "run a different game mode" certainly isn't. If you would like more insight into mechanics of how we look at a bigger picture, there are nicer ways of asking than I have seen. But, for some homework, tell me how often you see a server on CTF keep around 30 players - in vanilla, on what map, and at about what hour (in PST if you please). Some of your requests include incorporating smaller maps into rotation, that's another thing again we've done. Berlin was already added in before you asked, it was also even worked on some so it wouldn't end in 10 minutes. Here's a possible consequence we look at that was already mentioned and was misunderstood, it may bring in some infantry vets in the short term; but that's short-term as in minutes. Players with a higher ping from europe can end up getting shot to hell, and disconnecting after 10-20 minutes. I still expect it to do decently however, and hopefully it shall.

If you interpret others having a lens of experience as ignoring you, that is an option. Although it isn't them being spiteful. Nor have at least my feelings been hurt. I mainly advise against opinions worded that blame a sole entity for something like the decline of players across all of north america. As for ideas that have struck a cord, well kinda, but things like smaller maps we're already doing. They too can only be played so much. :)

 



#22 Hairy Russian Dude

Posted 04 October 2017 - 07:04 PM

Twilight I'll be honest here, and take it as a compliment, you are hard to follow sometimes due to superior sentence structure. Try drinking a bit before posting, might help make it easier to follow.

 

There are no places you will find 30+ playing CTF. I say again, it may be useful to build with it. CTF 24/7 won't fly.

You guys have been at this for awhile and can make predictions based on experience, but thats all they are is predictions. You could very well be right but you won't know what works and what doesn't nowadays until you try it out.

Every suggestion I've made could bomb hard, or every one could be beneficial. We will not know until they have been given a chance. And if population is on the decline anyways, what do you really have to lose at the moment?

I'm going to simplify some suggestions here. Take them and mull or brush off. If you would care to know detail on the rationale behind them, it can be found in my previous posts. No need to point out what is already being done as I know some is.

 

- Have Berlin (regular and your modded), Stalin (modded with warehouse mains), Kursk, and Axe CQ in rotation.

- Have Berlin (tanks replaced with apcs, one nade limit), Stalin (warehouse mod), Axe, Kursk (one plane only, extra aa), Wake and MAYBE Omaha CTF in rotation.

- Discuss presence of large maps in rotation and perhaps lean towards relying on admin to run them as it is appropriate.

- Play around with large map CTF as the population increases. See how it goes over with (for example) 10 on 10 Bulge CTF.

- Play around with running TDM more with lower population.

- Run ex pack CTF in rotation and see how it goes. This is going to be a trial and error thing to gauge what works better. Run CQ upon request.

- Lower map time to 30 minutes. Use extensions less. Extensions are good for (example) 3 minutes left, 200 tickets each.

- Consider regular, possibility of cap out maps upon player request.

- Sticky a mod request thread to open communication about mods. Will make it easier to gauge successful use of Posi's (and others?) time.

- Consider bots in the dead night hours.

- Consider admin running map vote once in awhile. My understanding is this can easily be toggled on and off?

- Loosen up on kicks. If it isn't interrupting gameplay and isn't absolutely inappropriate discussion, leave it be.

 

I feel like I'm missing something and may chime in later if I think of it.

Most of all, don't feel dissuaded if something doesn't pan out. This is trial and error.


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#23 mistamontiel

Posted 06 October 2017 - 03:02 AM

^

L0L+amen

Yes in remote manager everything is essentially a toggle



#24 Twilight

Posted 06 October 2017 - 04:30 AM

I've been trying to get away from quoting lines 5 times per post lately, it made things kinda long. Never much confusion in what someone was reading that way, but thanks. Although I probably won't take up drinking when I write.

Fair enough, give me your next best amount of players with the homework assignment. Shoot for around 20, as that constitutes a nice game. From watching things myself tonight I've seen a server with 12 in for CTF gazala, that comes pretty close, and is important because for awhile it was top of the world in population. Just narrowly beating CQ el alamein with 11 (only to reverse to 30 on bocage in that el al server around half an hour later). Some of the point I've tried to make with you is we have tried most things out. Circumstances for the game do sometimes change, but those predictions you distinguished come principally through past trial and error. Those who repeatedly make the same mistakes, really aren't learning anything.

Some of the suggestions could be beneficial. As for what exists to be lost, there is always something. I tend to notice people that ask questions like "how could X get any worse?" frequently find themselves end up surprised. When I've pointed out what we're already doing that you posted (along with the timing) that was for more than your benefit. It helps others with perspective when reading what isn't a PM ongoing between the two of us.

 

- We can't include Berlin twice, stalingrad and kursk we may consider soon, and battleaxe is usually present.
- We may change kursk soon, CTF Omaha or Wake probably won't go into rotation due to admin requirement (yes, despite what you think on the community helping run it).
- Large maps are discussed, but we view them differently than you. E.g. Philippines, Bulge, Gazala are large, and Market Garden more like medium-small.
- We sometimes do, see where I mentioned running that or TDM depending what people want. CTF Bulge doesn't exist.
- TDM I'd love to do, it only works however when players are willing to concentrate mostly on kills and enjoy that.
- Xpacks, which need to stop being confused with ex packs {explosive packs} will not be included for rotation at this time. Fewer continue to have them and it would always dump some players.
- Shorter standard rounds has killed us when tried before, so unlikely. Conquest maps don't truly end until 0 tickets, and war wasn't short.
- We ask map preferences regularly enough. There are also not enough maps to avoid some cap out maps from being in rotation, we still try to improvise.
- Your requests as they exist now are sufficient. Let us worry about our use of our time.
- AI are being considered for certain things, take bocage. Some regulars however vehemently do not like them.

- Map vote is done through admins here. Always feel free to suggest one, even when you do not see an admin present. Do not wait until the last seconds of a map to do so.
- Please leave adminning to the admins. We exercise greater patience than you're aware.

 

Last off. While it's fun to post your feelings and any number of things you'd love to see, I'd like to remind everyone of the importance of seeding. As in being around in the actual server. There are no better ways of helping it - providing that truly is your aim.

 


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#25 Hairy Russian Dude

Posted 06 October 2017 - 12:51 PM

Thank you for the discussion Twilight. I am far less frustrated now that you and Miller have acknowledged and responded to my posts in a constructive manner.

The last point I want to make is in regards to cap out maps. They have their pros and cons, one pro being keeping rotation going a bit quicker so those with limited playtime aren't constantly logging in to the same map each evening.

 

I have better insight as to your thinking, and I feel you now have a firm grasp on the points I am trying to make and the reasoning behind it from a player's perspective. I don't have much to argue anymore here. I do simply ask that you read through the back and forth in this post once in awhile to reconsider some of your stances once in awhile. If you do you do, if you don't you don't.

 

Ren, I've been reading your style of posting too long, sorry for the hijack. Back to you.


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#26 Renlist

Posted 10 October 2017 - 11:59 PM

  

 

Ren, I've been reading your style of posting too long, sorry for the hijack. Back to you.

  

My style of posting?   Doesn't appeal to you?    Not sure what my style is. What's yours?   



#27 Angerfist

Posted 13 October 2017 - 04:32 PM

It must be us Admins doing everything wrong. It can't be the players who might be part of the problem (aka playing in a way which harms the server aka themselves).

 

Everybody loves baserape (especially with B 17s on a 5 vs 5), getting oneshotted and naded by the leet low ping zookers (57 % more fun, skrew pistols) while playing inf or constant kamikaze moves. Who gives a damn about a nice good fight when you can roflcopter your jeep into anything which moves or nade your feet in panic. We reached a point where every player above mediocre skill level gets spit on because of the obvious hack BS, simply because a not too tiny part of the players didn't move away from embryo skill level. 

 

But yes, it's the Admins who skrew it up. And that pilot guy, and that magic sniper. Daderpaderp.

 

Anyway, Perlen vor die Säue.

 

Cheers.


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#28 Moving Target

Posted 13 October 2017 - 08:27 PM

Don't forget the guys who sit in tanks all map as well.
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#29 Spare Parts

Posted 13 October 2017 - 08:44 PM

Don't forget the guys who sit in tanks all map as well.

HEY, I resemble that remark. I clearly know that was meant for Tankgerfist, but I hadn't injected myself into a thread in awhile.


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#30 HARRY TRIGGER

Posted 14 October 2017 - 01:39 AM

I call sour grapes.



#31 Hairy Russian Dude

Posted 14 October 2017 - 02:20 PM

Anger,

 

"Everything", no. Nowhere in this thread is there a claim that admin are doing everything wrong. Things completely in control of the admin team, yes I feel there are some better directions to go. As stated numerous times, I hope one day the admin team can read and reconsider their stances. Or not, and continue full steam ahead with what you are currently doing. I truly feel Twilight has grasped most of the points I am trying to make, hopefully some of his brethren can as well.

Yes, players dick stuff up too. This is mostly out of your control though. However you can control the boredom to an extent. I have covered this topic in a previous thread, players get bored and dick around. Don't enjoy 5 on 5 baserape with the B17? Put on a map that suites the pop better and has no B17.

 

Players absolutely do screw games up Anger. You are not wrong there. But admin are not infallible and make wrong decisions too.

I as a player can admit that I could make more of an attempt to stay better vested in maps I do not enjoy in hopes of seeding the server. Are you able to admit any sort of shortcomings as an admin?



#32 Renlist

Posted 14 October 2017 - 08:07 PM

I don't mine the clock resets, necessarily. I just don't like missing dinner to get to the end of an hour and a half match!  I want finality.



#33 Colonel Tavington

Posted 15 October 2017 - 08:12 AM

"Don't enjoy 5 on 5 baserape with the B17? Put on a map that suites the pop better and has no B17." 

 

Well, let's go whole hog and move to a map with no planes then.  If people don't like being pinned down by how someone is using a weapon, then directly do something about it or avoid it.  Case in point, the other day with just a few players on each side on Market Garden we were being pinned down at the Allied base by a couple of Axis pilots.  It took a few minutes of survival (I hid out in the barn until one pilot got tired of bombing it), but then Magoo, coydog and I were able to slip out of the base and take all the flags.  End of basecamping.

 

Then a week or so ago I was using the B-17 to pin down the Allies at their base on Market Garden and killed Lifi a couple of times trying to get a plane.  Then he was able to get a plane and came up and shot me down.  End of basecamping.

 

I've basecamped and been basecamped (there's some real theraputic enjoyment to doing it as payback for the times I've been basecamped).  A person can always take a break and come back later if it's really bad (I've done that a few times), but my first instinct is to try to do something about it (either by direct action or evasion).


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#34 Renlist

Posted 21 October 2017 - 11:45 PM

Some players should have a sense of sportsmanship or class or whatever. With fewer playing on some Conquest maps like Aberdeen or BOTB, any experienced CTF player can play a Conquest map like it's a CTF map and cap the others main base right off the bat, especially with noone there to guard it. It's a punk thing to do, IMO. Their excuse is to do the same, which just makes it sorta like a CTF map. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should (if you want the gameplay to flourish). 

 

Not everyone has the savvy and experience to grief a map and stymie gameplay, thank goodness.


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#35 Steve2112

Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:36 PM

Well we can argue till the mooncows come home, but the fact is, the pop is diminishing. Tonight...1 user online at about 11pm edt. This should be prime time. 

 

We argue and point fingers instead of figuring out what we did wrong and how to get and keep players. Pathetic. This is no family or community., it's a cutthroat pirate ship.  The game is still viable. Other servers have between 24 and 40 players at the same time as Moon's 1. (okay 2...including me. )

 

So....why? Why do at least two other servers have viable pop and moon nada? I am not trying to be confrontational....but shouldn't we be able to have the same consistent pop as the other couple servers? If we'd only just listen to each other instead of being so defensive and blaming everyone else. 

 

of course, there could be a very viable reason we have 2 players and other servers have 24 or 40, and I am about ready to get the usual Moon admin/exec smackdown. Maybe there was MoonCon and some of us didn't get invited :) {shrug}


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#36 Spare Parts

Posted 25 October 2017 - 02:30 AM

Well we can argue till the mooncows come home, but the fact is, the pop is diminishing. Tonight...1 user online at about 11pm edt. This should be prime time. 

 

We argue and point fingers instead of figuring out what we did wrong and how to get and keep players. Pathetic. This is no family or community., it's a cutthroat pirate ship.  The game is still viable. Other servers have between 24 and 40 players at the same time as Moon's 1. (okay 2...including me. )

 

So....why? Why do at least two other servers have viable pop and moon nada? I am not trying to be confrontational....but shouldn't we be able to have the same consistent pop as the other couple servers? If we'd only just listen to each other instead of being so defensive and blaming everyone else. 

 

of course, there could be a very viable reason we have 2 players and other servers have 24 or 40, and I am about ready to get the usual Moon admin/exec smackdown. Maybe there was MoonCon and some of us didn't get invited :) {shrug}

Not a baseball fan?



#37 Steve2112

Posted 25 October 2017 - 05:23 PM

 

 

Not a baseball fan?

 

 

 

 

Nope. Why? Was there some big game or sumpn?  :wasnt-me:  :hap2:

 

I used to be a HUGE Reds fan in the 70's. The Big Strike just made me lose interest. Man....Johnny Bench, Davey Concepcion, George Foster, Petey. I might go to a Rays game once or twice a year, just to try to keep them in St Pete. Used to be a huge NBA fan with the Sixers...I used to listen to them on radio! Talk about a big fan!. But the crappy 90 sixers team, soured me. Love The Bulls and Rockets too. , then the terrible 1 on 1 scheme took hold and bye bye NBA. Now, the NFL is attempting to do the same thing....ruin the fun. 

 

 

More time for Moongaming! 



#38 bondmaster

Posted 07 November 2017 - 02:34 AM

I have been reading through this topic and a lot of interesting stuff has been mentioned here. Now I have been out of the loop for some time and I am now just getting back into the thick of things, but let me chime in on a little bit here if you don't mind. 

 

1) Battlefield came out in 2004, the game is over 13 years old. There are a ton of servers still out there but only a few are continuously populated. The market is saturated and there are not enough players to go around. Theoretically if you can eliminate all but the top ten (MoonGamers is listed as #8 on game tracker) then I bet you will see the population drastically rise. However, its a free world and that won't happen so we deal with it. 

 

2) Lets take a look at --=[ aX ]=-- (the #1 ranked server) and lets compare with that they have. Our server is pretty similar to theirs. Here is a copy of their server rules. From the looks of it, its very similar to ours. Also take note of the server itself. 64 players max.

 

-------------------

No cheating, glitching or bugging

There's no justifiable reason to intentionally teamkill
Attacking an uncapturable enemy base is not allowed. Basesniping is not an exception.
Active AA and artillery can be attacked from air even when in uncap base.
Beach flags on Omaha Beach and Iwo Jima are not considered to be uncapturable bases.
Don't steal vehicles from enemy base.
Don't use vehicles as taxi to get to planes or tanks faster.
Please don't spam chat and don't repeat radio commands unless really necessary.
Please avoid excessive swearing, racist comments or any other disturbing and/or annoying behaviour.
If you're asked to change your nickname, do so.
Evading a ban will lead to a permban.
 
If you're not sure, ask in chat / forum or use common sense if available.
 
Breaking any of these rules will lead to your kick or ban in order to provide good gaming experience to those who can follow them.
 
Automatic kicks/bans:
 
score less than or equal to -4 = minus-score kick
4 or more teamkills = kick
3x minus-score kick = 1 week BAN
 

-------------------

Based on this information, I think it is safe to say its not our policies or rules that are the issue. What does that leave? The maps and the server location. My understanding is that server is located in Europe (IP lists it in France), ours is USA. Their population may indicate the majority of BF1942 players are from Europe which is disadvantageous to us. 

 
So what does all this mean? Nothing really. Ax is their own community with their own flavor and our community is our unique brand. Its the players that mainly make the difference. So the main question is how do you remain competitive? Modded maps mixed with the vanilla maps, tournaments, and most importantly...a base of players who can seed the server who play from all parts of the world (Europe, Asia, America, Australia). If the server had 10 players 24/7 the rest should fall into place. Of course we are talking about an older game and its very hard to attract new people because of technological advancements. We got the spirit and we got the players who want to keep this going. Now its a matter of getting players in the server and keeping it going. Believe me, seeding a server is one of the hardest things to do, but its how to ignite and maintain a population. 
 
Seeding aside, the only other thing to control is the map rotation and player demand. Rotate the most popular maps and let the admins switch to the less popular maps when they are online and playing. Just understand that the map rotation is not the problem, it is only an aide. The main issue we face are players and people willing to seed the server. 
 
Just my two cents. Like I said, I have been out of the loop for some time but I love this community and I will (and always have) continue to support it and do what I can to help make it a better place. 
 
Matt

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#39 The Silver Shroud!

Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:48 PM

Those are some good points bond, I'd like to give my thoughts officially on the matter of a depressing decrease in population over the few months. You see, I am fairly new to the community, I started playing pretty consistently since last November 2016. I remember around lunch time through the week there were typically 3 people already in the game by the time I joined. Usually it would be Lonestar and Midget that would be on and whoever else (PUNKY). This is the seeding you are talking about bond because then it always lead to more people and before you know it there's a good pop for a game. I took maybe a month and a half off and bam, those lunch time battles disappeared and don't exist as of right now. Now it's either we wait until the evening for the population to rise or wait until Sunday for the expansion packs.  Even then it's still difficult to play in the evenings, for example I got on around 8 PM(CST) yesterday(Monday) and found myself to be alone. I've noticed maps being extended for not once, twice, but three times! That's an extra  45 minutes on the same freaking map, assuming that each extension is 15 minutes long.

 When admins perform such an action, the people who have been playing since the beginning of the start of the game realize that they have had too much of this map and game that they need a break, a long break. When a regular 45 minute game ends for me I will sometimes take a little break in-between maps and get some food or whatever, but I will be ready for more in the next game. Now this is where maps in rotation do come into play, we know Market Garden is the most played and has always had at least some success more than not. Liberation of Caen on the other hand is more of a miss than a hit and really needs to get off the rotation for a while. The other maps are in the middle, they do good and they also do bad but are average, which is completely fine under the conditions this server is currently under right now. Basically of excessive extensions are too much, I would cap the 15 minute extension to only two times per game, really only once would be better.

 

I'd like to move onto uncapturable bases when they are typically capturable(Ex, Hellendorn, Baytown), I think it's a dweeb little move as it gives the players less of importance in winning the game by capping all the flags. The games feel dragged on and with no real purpose because regardless of anything, it's going to be a 45 minute game. For example, if Tobruk had an uncappturable base in the ally's main then the sense of defense goes down drastically! This concept applies to all the other maps that have been modded with an uncapped base. I personally like the objective of bleeding the other team out by not letting them have a base to respawn at, it is simply another objective for everyone to attack on as well as defend and work as a team. In addition, when one team1 is just straight owning team2 and team1 has all the flags, team2 would like their base to be capturable and just simply end the game and move on to the next one.

 

Lastly, yes I realize this is a PG community but does the server really need an autokick feature for someone who uses explicit language or political slang? I mean really there's like 5,000 admins (exaggerated, but you get my point)  in this community and y'all need an autokick feature??  I'm sure there are people who are new to the server and yea they'll cuss and then they will get kicked. Guess what? Some of those people are not coming back because they think it's stupid that they are getting autokicked(yes, there are people out there that are like that believe it or not). I believe they should receive an obvious warning as to why they are breaking a rule, instead of a straight kick with no reason as to why they were kicked. Think about it, most of us know that the word "shit" is not under the autokick list, and look how many people use the word often, not one.

 

Oh I almost forgot, primary expacks, we know the rule but y'all don't enforce for shit. You will never see me pull out my expack unless it's against a vehicle or planting a conquest flag full of expacks. I respect the rule as I believe in the rule too. Y'all need to either get rid of the rule or actually enforce it, one or the other, no in-between nonsense. If I had it my way I would get rid of the rule simply because many people use it and I'm all for more people playing. I'm sorry for sounding like an asshole now but y'all need to understand my message here.

 

This is a GREAT community and I love playing with y'all. As some of you know I have been in the teamspeak and enjoy the company very much. I'm a guy who wants the best for the server and I want to get on and see people playing on this server consistently, I love the players and I love my ping :) I know this game is old but there are still plenty of people playing as of now. I hope y'all get some insight from a player like myself about these conditions we face and how I see things perceptually.

 

This is my official rant Spare Parts :)


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#40 King of the Squirrels

Posted 07 November 2017 - 04:56 PM

Hey everyone

 

You bring up valid points.  The age of the game and type of players.  Usually everything runs fine. However in age of internet trolls moon rules get pushed to limits. Most players who play here understand. Moon was founded on the rules set down our founder and Admin team over the 13 years. The rules were not picked out of thin air. Every MoonGamers rule exist to try and fix or has fixed know problems.  In smaller population age it makes rules seem like a bigger issue.

 

Everyone.  Moon Policy is Warn, Kick then Ban if necessary. Everyone who missed the warning part gets :whippingsmiley:  with a wet noodle. There will be a up charge for real whips and hot wax if requested. :yikes:

 

There are instant Bans such as Cheating/Hacking, Server crashing and Racism and Worse. Moon is one of the few communities with Unban request. We allow our players and admins to discuss rules and rule changes. Moon does our best to meet the needs of our community. This may not what you want or when you want it. LOL.  But we have it.

 

Remember to talk to your fellow players and admins if there any issue.

 

Our policy is educate not eradicate.  Some players need little reminder every now and then. Keep the games going  :shoot2:




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