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#1 Comet

Posted 11 August 2011 - 11:39 AM

It takes skill to kill a more powerful class, it takes skill to run and gun up against a distant rifle or hidden mg, it takes skill to capture flags. I get a chuckle out of those who believe the assault class takes no skill, especially coming from those who hide with an mg or camp to scope. Cries of "random head shot" or "no skill spray and pray" blah blah blah...

Get over it. If you don't use the class then you have a more powerful and accurate weapon...so who has no skill?

Have at it...

#2 Iceman

Posted 11 August 2011 - 12:23 PM

After playing EVERY class to 500 kills (both sides), I can say that there are only a few weapons that DO take skill. Allied Rifleman, and Rockets. Also it takes skill to RUSH with a sniper rifle/mg. You can also add knifing/shoveling and punching.

besides that, it is mostly based on reaction time and ping and randomness.

Also, each class has it's arch-class. One that can kill it easily, it also has a class it can kill easily.


After playing this game A LOT, the worst part is the randomness of headshots in my opinion.

#3 Keller

Posted 11 August 2011 - 02:26 PM

I think you're just trying to defend your preference for the Assault class Comet. :P

I've been playing this game since the day it was released and I can say to you with absolute certainty that there is something unfair about the randomness of headshots with the Thompson and MP40. Since the very beginning there were calls to fix the cone of fire of the assault class and after a few tweaks the problem was only made worse, and then Valve shut down support of the game leaving it as it was. It was even suggested that the headshots were coded into the game to give the assault class a fighting chance in a distant fight, falsely improving it's chances of success. The Thompson and MP40 were designed for clearing houses and confined spaces, their only uses on an open battlefield were to make noise and boost morale.

I can tell you that I have shot a Thompson SMG in full auto before, as well as an MP40 (Gotta love Vegas!) and there is no way in heck that somebody could land multiple hits on somebody at the distances they do in game. Now I know that DoD isn't real life, but the cone of fire was modeled after real life accuracy; the DoD Dev team took great pride in the research they did in creating this game.


Do a test, create a server and stand a distance (like the length of the plaza in Donner) away from a solid wall and aim for one spot with the Thompson, firing the entire magazine in one full auto salvo. Then go and check your bullet marks and you'll probably see that no 3 bullet hits would have hit a player sized target if somebody had been standing anywhere in that area. Now take that info and factor in how often you actually hit a player either in the head or multiple times. There is no way that all those headshots are just lucky shots.

My point is, in games like DoD and CS he/she that has the best aim will end up being a good player. There is no aim involved when it comes to the assault class because even if you put your crosshairs on somebody's arm the chance that the bullets will actually hit that spot at anything other than point blank range are slim. Therefore, the assault class is a very forgiving class to use. My ultimate respect goes out to those that use the Garand, one shot to the head is fatal but more often than not it requires two shots. I consider myself a pretty good shot with the K98 and it's one hit kill usually means that if you miss you're probably dead. If an allied rifleman can kill an axis rifleman the majority of time in 1-1 fights, the allied rifleman is most definitely the better shot.

:pwned: <-- Fitting right???



:canadaflag:

#4 SabaHell

Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:30 PM

Grease gun/Carbine.

Discuss.

#5 Scoop1967 - Dan

Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:36 PM

I tend to lean towards the Sux Gun, it gets me to my Awesome 5 kills and 29 deaths per round. I also lead the stats in re-spawn time, typically 2 - 1 over my actual play time.

#6 smegga

Posted 12 August 2011 - 09:41 AM

I prefer the tommy or the mp40, i suck with any other weapon, except the mg which anyone can put up a good score with.If i run out of bullets i then try to punch them out which makes people a trifle upset. if i use the rifle i cannot hit a barn door with it, as those who played against me can testify to.

#7 Perculator

Posted 12 August 2011 - 03:29 PM

I really wanted to participate, but it just made me angry, so I'm gonna bail on this one. I'll leave with these thoughts:

It takes skill to play the MG well. It takes skill to dispatch a good MGer. That doesn't mean unskilled people can't get lucky sometimes on either side of that equation. The same goes for snipers.

I'd guess that for every headshot I've gotten with the Thompson, I've emptied two clips at somebody with little to no damage. The lucky hits come and go, and they come more frequently when you understand how to aim the gun well and control the recoil within the mechanics that the game provides. I feel the same way about rifles that you do about the Thompson Keller. Sometimes it makes the game un-fun for me. When it does, I suck it up and try to figure out how to get back at those bastards.

#8 STRYPER

Posted 12 August 2011 - 03:49 PM

9 is your friend :-D

I only play random weapon class anymore. I desire to be strong with every gun in the game and I think that slowly I'm getting to place where I don't have a preference.


...that being said, the grease gun/broomhandle is the sickest close combat gun I've ever used in any game (excluding shotguns) :cowdance:

#9 Keller

Posted 12 August 2011 - 05:19 PM

Grease gun in DOD:S???

DjSpleen and I did a little testing on the FF ON server last night and found some interesting things happening with the Thompson.

I was playing as Axis Support standing under the Axis arch in Avalanche, and Spleen was up in the double windows with no roof. He kept shooting at me in bursts and full auto with the Thompson and everything seemed normal, a couple times it seemed as though a single bullet registered as two bullets though. On average it took 3 hits to kill me and we did this about 7 or 8 times.

Then something very interesting happened, I switched to Rifleman and we repeated the experiment. 3 out of 5 deaths were 1 hit for 110 damage headshots; this hadn't happened when I was using the Support class. Coincidence?

#10 Perculator

Posted 12 August 2011 - 06:53 PM

Coincidence?


Yes?

#11 Comet

Posted 12 August 2011 - 08:23 PM

Unfortunately game dynamics lends itself to disgruntaled game play at times, random head shots etc. It's the constant assult bashing that bothers me, especially where it's coming from. I guess we all have our dislikes...

Quite frankly most weapons aren't that difficult to master given the time, how one plays out the game with their particular weapon is where skill comes into play.

Interesting read, thanks for the input...

#12 dj_spleen

Posted 13 August 2011 - 02:21 AM

I think I am getting a grip on proper broom handle use. It seems like if i aim at the neck, the 3rd or 4th shot is always a head shot. I may be wrong here, but it seems that way. Down side, as saba showed me earlier tonight, 3 clips and Im screwed.

With the assault I have found if I burst fire at long distances I can usually pick up a head shot. I am not weighing in on this discussion nor taking a side. But I do agree with perc. When I think someone or a group is just being cheesy with assault, it makes me step up my game, I get irritated and bring "it". "It" usually involves lots of nade spam.

Just my thoughts...

#13 Keller

Posted 13 August 2011 - 11:15 AM

It's the constant assult bashing that bothers me, especially where it's coming from.


Not sure how to take that one.

#14 Comet

Posted 13 August 2011 - 11:53 AM

I wasn't implying any one individual. Comments made typically come from players out for score, those who camp, and random head shot complainers.

Good point dj, bursts make for a more accurate shot. My "s" key is crouch, something I highly recommend for a run and gun style. Coupled with a small crosshair dot head shots from a distance aren't that difficult...

#15 dj_spleen

Posted 13 August 2011 - 01:56 PM

a small crosshair dot head shots from a distance aren't that difficult...

Whew I am glad I am not the only one who uses that style of crosshair.

#16 Perculator

Posted 13 August 2011 - 05:06 PM

...head shots from a distance aren't that difficult...


I think that's Keller's point though. They should be with that gun. The farther away your target is, the larger the spread and the more difficult it should be.

I mean, I don't agree with him that it's some sort of planned decision that the dev's made. But I do think the spread at a distance has been narrowed on several of the guns, and I think the effective range of some of the guns is a bit far. That having been said, I still enjoy the game, and still enjoy getting back at the lucky ones.

#17 Wasabi®

Posted 14 August 2011 - 04:52 AM

I absolutely love the Garand. It's difficult to play against people with SMG but it's really fun. On the other hand I don't really like the K98 due to the reload.

#18 Perculator

Posted 14 August 2011 - 09:27 AM

You know what really drives me nuts is when some twit on Axis with a rifle works his way up into the Allied sniper area on Donner, blocks the stairway with a bookshelf, and one-shots everyone on the team trying to cap the tank.

:wasnt-me:

#19 Keller

Posted 14 August 2011 - 03:31 PM

You know what really drives me nuts is when some twit on Axis with a rifle works his way up into the Allied sniper area on Donner, blocks the stairway with a bookshelf, and one-shots everyone on the team trying to cap the tank.

:wasnt-me:


As you can see from this old photo I was only following orders.


Posted Image

:P

#20 Perculator

Posted 14 August 2011 - 05:07 PM

:lol:


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